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the relationship between "Tides" and "Tidal Currents"

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  • the relationship between "Tides" and "Tidal Currents"

    Notes for me for CBBT and CHSP fishing. (Use "progressive wave" model)

    http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/faq4.html
    http://fishcurrents.com
    http://http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/maps/Chesapeake_Bay.shtml
    //https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/tide_predictions.html
    http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/
    CHSP http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=LWSD1
    CBBT http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/station_page.php?station=cbbv2



    What is the relationship between "Tides" and "Tidal Currents"?
    Comparison of tidal conditions vs. tidal current phases
    The vertical rise and fall of the tides, created by the gravitational force of the Moon and Sun acting on the oceans water, also creates a horizontal motion of the water in the bays, harbors and estuaries. These are tidal currents. In general, as the tides rise there will be a current flowing from the oceans into the bays, harbors and estuaries; this is termed a "flood current". As the tides fall there will be a current flowing towards the oceans; this is termed an "ebb current". There are also periods when there is little or no horizontal motion of the water; this is called "slack water".

    Many professional and recreational users of tide and tidal current information have a "rule of thumb" to assume a relationship between the times of high/low tides and the times of the currents. That the times of slack water will be at the same time as the high and low tides, and that the flood and ebb current will occur between the high and low tides. Unfortunately, this assumed "rule of thumb" does not hold for most locations.

    The relationship between the times of high/low tide and the times of slack water or maximum current is not a simple one. There are three "base case" conditions. The first is a "standing wave" type of current. In a standing wave the times of slack water will be nearly the same time as the high and low tides, with the maximum flood and ebb current occurring mid way between the high and low tides. The second is a "progressive wave" current. In a progressive wave, the maximum flood and ebb will occur around the times of the high and low tides, with the slack water occurring between the times of high and low tide. The third case is a "hydraulic current". In a hydraulic current, the current is created by the difference in height of the tides at two locations joined by a waterway. The current will be at its maximum flood or ebb when the difference in the two heights are the greatest. The slack water will occur when the height of the tide at the two locations in nearly the same.

    Hydraulic currents occur at a limited number of locations. Some examples would be:
    •the Chesapeake and Delaware Canal, which connects the Chesapeake Bay and Delaware Bay
    •the East River in New York, which connects Long Island Sound to New York Harbor
    •certain sections of the Intra Coastal Water Way (ICWW)
    •between barrier islands which create different tidal conditions on opposite sides of the island

    Progressive currents are most common at the oceanic entrance to many bays and harbor. Standing wave conditions are most common at the head (most inland point) of larger bays and harbors. Most areas of the coast will fall somewhere in between a progressive and standing wave current. [Example (jpg)] The exact relationship between the times of high and low tides and the maximum current or slack water is unique to each location and cannot be determined from a generic "rule of thumb".

    Because the tidal currents are created by the same forces which cause the tides, the currents can be predicted in much the same way as the tides. Observational data on the currents at a location can be analyzed using the same methods employed to analyze tides, and the results of that analysis can be used to generate predictions of tidal currents. However, because the relationship between tides and tidal currents is unique to each location, tide predictions and tidal current predictions are generated separately.
    Tide predictions provide the times and heights of the tides.
    Tidal current predictions provide the times and speed of maximum current and times of slack water.

    It is up to the user to insure that they are using the correct type of predictions for their activities.

    Tide Info: http://www.saltwatertides.com/pickpred.html
    Last edited by ComeOnFish; 03-20-2016, 02:54 PM.
    Fish like there's no tomorrow.
    Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

  • #2
    I use:

    http://tbone.biol.sc.edu/tide/index.html

    for tidal current predictions.

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    • #3
      http://fishcurrents.com is a good one as well. Click the arrows on the map for detailed forecasts
      2013 WS Ride 135
      2015 WS Ride 115

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      • #4
        Originally posted by rwh View Post
        http://fishcurrents.com is a good one as well.
        I like that ... click through the times of the day and watch the color changes on a specific arrow to see the times of highest flows.

        e.g. Beverly Triton flood current today 11:00 am to 2:00 pm.

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        • #5
          Thank you very much.

          So, it looks, at CHSP and CBBT, The good tog fishing time is about in the middle of high and low tide. So, I will be at the target pilings and be ready 2 hours after high or low tide.

          Joe
          Fish like there's no tomorrow.
          Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

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          • #6
            Fish current not tides. The faster the water is moving the better the catching. Excellent apps at navionics.com - Boating.

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            • #7
              cth,
              You are absolutely right on the current and catching more fish.
              I think, I didn’t make it clear that the Tide Current info for me is not just for catching fish, and the info is especially for CHSP and CBBT fishing.

              We (who fish CHSP and CBBT) usually target two different species at CHSP and CBBT, one (such as, tautog, sheepshead,spadefish) for slack tide and the other (such as, striper, flounder) for good current. Our fishing spots are 1/8 – 3 miles away from the launch sites. Because we fish 8-12 hours depending on Sunset time, it has been very important to us to plan the whole day based on the target species, target fishing spots, and traveling time between fishing spots.

              I get very tired after 6-7 hours especially in rough water – because I don’t want to anchor the kayak for my target fish. So there is no resting. So, for example, going to the target spot and coming back, up to 3 miles one way, against the strong current and wind is something I don’t want to do. I want move with the current and wind.

              Thank you
              Joe
              Fish like there's no tomorrow.
              Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

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              • #8
                A bit too informational, but good info, Joe.

                Actually, I don't really let the tides dictate when I fish. I get there when I get there. I fish when I'm on the water regardless of slack or flood/ebb current. I found I catch fish in all conditions. True, certain fish bites are more frequent during certain times. Am I going to not fish at slack? Just sit there and wait? I just fish...lol..
                2015 Hobie Outback (yellow)
                2011 Hobie Outback (yellow)
                2009 OK Prowler Trident 13 Angler (orange)

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                • #9
                  Try to fish CBBT and ER and come back home by 11:00 PM

                  Joe's Notes for Dec 20, 2014 (Sat) - Try to fish CBBT and ER and come back home by 11:00 PM?

                  http://fishcurrents.com is great. It also shows the current in Hot Ditch area (Elizabeth River)

                  CBBT slack tide at 09:45 PM - togging 08:00 - 11:00 AM
                  ER slack tides at 02:30 PM, Strong current at 05:00 PM - Current will pickup around 03:30 PM

                  Fish CBBT until 01:00 PM. Start fish ER at 02:30 PM

                  Dang!
                  My wife just came home, and told me I am going to a pre-Christmas party tonight. I haven't load the truck yet.

                  Joe
                  Last edited by ComeOnFish; 12-19-2014, 06:25 PM.
                  Fish like there's no tomorrow.
                  Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
                  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

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                  • #10
                    Jan 3, 2015 at CBBT

                    Jan 3, 2015 at CBBT

                    7 AM (High Tide) - arrive at 7 AM

                    8 AM - incoming, medium

                    9 AM - incoming, mild

                    10 AM - incoming, slack

                    11 AM - outgoing, mild

                    12 PM - outgoing, medium

                    1 PM (Low Tide) - outgoing, strong

                    2 PM - outgoing, strong - go home
                    Fish like there's no tomorrow.
                    Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
                    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ComeOnFish View Post
                      Jan 3, 2015 at CBBT

                      7 AM (High Tide) - arrive at 7 AM

                      8 AM - incoming, medium

                      9 AM - incoming, mild

                      10 AM - incoming, slack

                      11 AM - outgoing, mild

                      12 PM - outgoing, medium

                      1 PM (Low Tide) - outgoing, strong

                      2 PM - outgoing, strong - go home
                      Joe, I will meet you out there. Seems like a good possibility for rain though.
                      The best time spent is time that doesn't feel like it was spent at all. When it's worth it you'll give everything to do it all over again no matter what the cost.

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                      • #12
                        Danny,
                        I don't know if I actually can fish on Sat. The weekend work schedule for the next January hasn't set at my work.
                        Besides that, it will be very hard to catch togs in January. I try to go to CBBT only because I like wide open water. I can explorer the structures all day without catching any thing. I am hoping the new FF with DSI capability arrives on Friday.

                        So, don't expect that I will be there 100%. I am not planning to fish ER at all. I will come home if the wind is too strong.

                        Joe
                        Fish like there's no tomorrow.
                        Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
                        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

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                        • #13
                          Jan 10 (Sat)

                          low Tide: 05:04 AM
                          High Tide: 11:16 AM

                          07:00 AM: outgoing, med (first Island)
                          08:00 AM: outgoing, mild
                          08:30 AM: slack
                          09:00 AM: incoming, mild
                          10:00 AM: incoming, med (SBC)
                          11:00 AM: incoming, strong
                          12:00 PM: incoming, strong
                          01:00 PM: incoming, med
                          02:00 PM: incoming, mild (first island)
                          02:30 PM: slack
                          03:00 PM: outgoing, mild
                          Fish like there's no tomorrow.
                          Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
                          https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

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                          • #14
                            High air temp for tomorrow is about freezing. Not to mention 15-20 kt winds during the morning. Are you really going?
                            2015 Hobie Outback (yellow)
                            2011 Hobie Outback (yellow)
                            2009 OK Prowler Trident 13 Angler (orange)

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tufnik View Post
                              high air temp for tomorrow is about freezing. Not to mention 15-20 kt winds during the morning. Are you really going?
                              NOOOOOO


                              I am installing a Garmin echo 301dv today on the Outback. I am using Duct Seal for the transducer well. It will be done within 20 min.

                              Jan 11 (Sun)
                              low Tide: 05:49 AM
                              High Tide: 11:56 AM

                              Bring 4, 5, 6, 8 OZ sinkers

                              08:00 AM: outgoing, med (First Island)
                              09:00 AM: outgoing, mild
                              09:30 AM: slack
                              10:00 AM: incoming, mild
                              11:00 AM: incoming, med
                              12:00 PM: incoming, strong (SBC)
                              01:00 PM: incoming, strong (go home)
                              02:00 PM: incoming, med
                              03:00 PM: incoming, mild
                              03:30 PM: slack

                              http://fishcurrents.com
                              Last edited by ComeOnFish; 01-10-2015, 05:48 PM.
                              Fish like there's no tomorrow.
                              Youtube UserID: ComeOnFish01 (Over 300 kayak fishing videos in mid-Atlantic (DE, MD & VA)
                              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKb...JtmNcSJBi2Sazg

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