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View Full Version : The dream did come true - Kipto Tog (Nov 11)



ComeOnFish
11-21-2011, 08:45 PM
“The dream came true”

Typo on the title - I ment Nov 19 not 11.

I was ready again. The truck was loaded and I went straight to Kiptopeke State Park, VA.
I launched around 9:25am. It was a perfect day. It was warm (40-55F). The wind was gently blowing. And the current almost stopped during the low tide
And I was the only one at the Concrete Ships.
I checked two holes for the tog bites for 5 minutes each. I felt a tog bite at the third hole. There, I was limited out within 20 minutes. I landed 4 tog, and they were all keepers at 15-17 inch.
I usually don’t do Catch and Release. But I did one to take a good video of tog-fishing.
After the fifth tog, I came back to the shore and took more video of how I prepare a blue crab for bait.

I made the video for kayak-anglers who wanted to fish for tog but never did. The video is little long because I put some tog-fishing tips and scenes (One was uncut) that can, hopefully, accurately present how the tog fishing is done at the Concrete Ships.

I used blue crab for bait because blue crab are always available for me. The water temp was 55F. It went down by 2F for 10 days. I think Tog will be there next weekend (Nov 26)

9Yezh9qyLrc

Joe

Shady
11-21-2011, 09:37 PM
Awesome video, I thoroughly enjoyed it. I almost could feel the bite! One day I will catch one these crazy fish, but probably wont get another chance this year. Glad you had a great time on the water.

tufnik
11-21-2011, 09:48 PM
Good work, Joe. I'll use your technique next time. Togs were biting at CBBT on Saturday, but I didn't have any luck because the togs didn't like clams or refroze blue crab. Next time, I'll use live crabs. I did catch two stripers at 21 and 22".

Did you get my message? I rested and didn't fish Sat night. I went to HRBT Sunday morning. A lot of boats were out, but I didn't see anyone catch anything. Total skunk.

Redfish12
11-21-2011, 10:37 PM
Congratulations on the trip! I wish I could have joined you!

HokieDJ
11-21-2011, 10:54 PM
Way to go!

Man I wish I could go down 1 more time :)

ComeOnFish
11-21-2011, 10:57 PM
Congratulations on the trip! I wish I could have joined you!

The hole was the one You found, and I caught an 18 incher in April this year. I didn't waste too much time at the first two holes. The combination of Low tide, almost zero current and 55F water temp was the key I think.

Joe

ComeOnFish
11-21-2011, 11:20 PM
Good work, Joe. I'll use your technique next time. Togs were biting at CBBT on Saturday, but I didn't have any luck because the togs didn't like clams or refroze blue crab. Next time, I'll use live crabs. I did catch two stripers at 21 and 22".

Did you get my message? I rested and didn't fish Sat night. I went to HRBT Sunday morning. A lot of boats were out, but I didn't see anyone catch anything. Total skunk.

I thought I saw you paddling to the First Island in the morning I did'nt have your phone number I couldn't reach you. I went to Rudee. I took too much time (i.e. eating good lunch and taking more videos) before I arrived at the ramp at 1:00PM. There were gold rush of Specks at Rudee at/around 12:00pm - 01:00PM. They said I was late by 1 hour. I witnessed the many specks at 21-25" caught by boaters casting 4 inch grey swimbaits in the drop off (6-15') before I got there. The specks were big. I saw 7 big specks caught by a guy and 13 big specks caught by two guys on a different boat. I called my wife and she said I got tons of calls from my work. I couldn't hear my phone ringing because the phone is too well protected. I fished two hours in Rudee, and caught a 22 inch striper and 2 small specks at 10, 17 inch. I have a video clip of a guy holding 7 big specks. I will be posting the video for the record so that next year I can prepare. I learned that the best time for specks in Rudee is between one hour before/after the high tide.

I worked butt off Saturday evening and Sunday. I recognized your message yesterday.

I am working this weekends. So I am planning to try Rudee or Kipto following weekend. I will bringing crab just in case and because I can always eat them if I don't use them. If I can buy eel, I will buy eel for striper. I don't intend to fish Kipto after Dec 15 when MD Striper season closes because the place will be packed.

joe

ComeOnFish
11-22-2011, 07:27 AM
Regarding the distance between the hook and the sinker

When I used a tandem rig (one hook was placed 8.5 and the other was placed 16 above the sinker), tog hit the lower ones only. Also Rob Choi mentioned that Sheepshead prefer the bait that is placed higher than the tog bait from the sinker.

Ive been experimenting the distance between the hook and the sinker. On the same rig, I set the distances, 6 inches and 8.5 inches from the hook to the two end loops. I could test the distance by simply switching the sinker location.

At the ship, I placed the hook 6 inch above the sinker. Ill be continuously place the hook 6 inch above the sinker.

Does anyone have preference on the rig?

Joe

mmanolis2001
11-22-2011, 12:46 PM
Great job joe :cool:

Thanks for sharing all your tips in that video. Did you have any sea bass bait stealers mixed in or were the tog that thick? The chumming with the leftover bits and pieces is a great idea. Get those togs worked up and fighting over you chunk of crab. :D

Looks like you had perfect conditions and took full advantage of them.

jsquare
11-22-2011, 01:18 PM
Awesome report and video. I love togging!

I know the chumming thing works. Out on the party boats the guys just snip the crab legs over the side. Caught fish, especially greedy sea bass, often come up full of crab pieces. This is out in water 90ish feet deep, so I imagine it works even better inshore.

J.A. Veil
11-22-2011, 01:53 PM
Congratulations on the fine tog catch. Thanks for taking the time to prepare such an informative video.

Shield
11-22-2011, 07:16 PM
Thanks for the video Joe.

CB kayak 02
11-22-2011, 09:45 PM
Awesome Joe. Congrats and thanks for the video, very informative!!!

chex
11-22-2011, 10:22 PM
Freaking awesome! Well done!

MetroMan
11-23-2011, 08:57 AM
Nice!! I love your vids.

ictalurus
11-23-2011, 11:11 AM
Awesome work, Joe, and great video. Do you like the 7ft or the 6'3" Bass Pro graphite rod better for togging?

ComeOnFish
11-23-2011, 12:13 PM
Awesome work, Joe, and great video. Do you like the 7ft or the 6'3" Bass Pro graphite rod better for togging?


Bill,

I prefer the 7' rod. It's a little pain when carrying it inside truck. And I have to be more careful when entering the house. My personal reasons are:

The rod is lighter – I can set the hook faster (I feel big difference between two rods)

In case I have time to cast a big lure for striper, I can cast better with the 7’ because it flexes more

I can switch the side of the rig that is on the bottom without bringing the rig all the way up. I can just swing the rod top around the bow. I couldn’t do this when I sat on an Adventure. But sitting on a Revo, with the 7’ rod is very easy even with my short arm. This is the one of the biggest improvements for me after I purchased a Revo.

But 7’ rod may not be good in a confined area such as inside the Concrete Ship.

Big people probably prefer the 6’3” because they are stronger and they have longer arms.


BTW,

Next time I may use Penn 109M (no level winder) for Tog. I can’t cast with Penn (9m, 109m, 209M), and they don’t come with the left side handle and quick release. But I think they are simple and trouble free when the drag is set to almost to maximum. I have used 2 different baitcasting reels and I found out that the quick fire clutch bar got stuck every time I caught a tog. I needed to set the drag very light to free the quick fire clutch bar.
I am not quite familar with baitcasting reels. What was I doing wrong?

Now I prefer 40# test super braided over 30# super braided as main line. I am using the swivel to connect the leader to the mainline. I still use 30# test (mono or fluoro carbon) for the leader because the 30# test leader is easy to break off (compare to 40# test mono). This way I only give up the leader and quickly replace the leader. I carry about 30 pre-rigged leaders in a multiple zip-lock bags.

Now I carry two rod tops, glue and lighter. I had two damaged rod tops by bumping into/rub against pilings

joe

HokieDJ
11-23-2011, 01:58 PM
I prefer 6'8 rods now. I can still reach around the bow with it.

Why don't you guys use smaller bait casters like the Curado? My setup is a GL3 with Curado and it handles the tog's with no issues. Now I haven't caught a 24" yet but I'm sure it can handle that too :)

I would think the conventional reels are for monsters like rock in the 40" range.

Pinch
11-23-2011, 02:39 PM
I used a trevala s rod with curado 201e7 and it handled several larger tog upto the 10lb'r (24") perfectly. Its super sensitive and while using 8 oz lead It never felt bogged down.

Redfish12
11-23-2011, 02:41 PM
Why don't you guys use smaller bait casters like the Curado? My setup is a GL3 with Curado and it handles the tog's with no issues. Now I haven't caught a 24" yet but I'm sure it can handle that too :)

I would think the conventional reels are for monsters like rock in the 40" range.



The old penn's are fairly bullet proof and can be had for cheap, so they make a nice option, just hard to cast light lures. I have a 9m on one of the BPS muskie rods as a back up. I have been using a Cardiff 401a on a different set up because I like not having to flip a lever to engage the reel. I have it on a 6.5" M Trevala and it is ridiculously sensitive. I recently purchased a Newell 220 (lefty, hard to find!) so now I have a more reliable saltwater reel that I can still cast, but I'll have to get used to flipping the switch. I think it can handle anything that swims within kayak range of the beach. The heavy gear is partly for the fish and largely for standing up to the environment (pilings, rocks, concrete walls and rebar)

I have been wanting to try my carrot stick but I'm too afraid it will break, same with lighter rods. I got some tog jig heads for the next ships trip that I'm looking forward to trying on a light stick though.

ComeOnFish
11-23-2011, 02:52 PM
I prefer 6'8 rods now. I can still reach around the bow with it.

Why don't you guys use smaller bait casters like the Curado? My setup is a GL3 with Curado and it handles the tog's with no issues. Now I haven't caught a 24" yet but I'm sure it can handle that too :)

I would think the conventional reels are for monsters like rock in the 40" range.

I am assuming you have a 300 series baitcasting reel with 15lb drag. Do you have a conventional reel without a quick fire clutch bar?
I broke a Cardiff 300 series which comes with 11lb drag. Now I have Abu Garcia Ambassdeur 6600 series (15lb drag). I feel I will break the reel soon. I was doing something wrong. Did I tight the drag too heavy? Do I have to oil the reel even though the reel is brad new? I am one of those people who read instructions after everthing failed.

joe

tufnik
11-23-2011, 04:55 PM
Joe,
When you have the dropper loop 6" above the sinker, how high above the sinker is the hook? If your hook line is 3-4" and is attached to the loop, it will hang maybe 1" above the sinker, right?

Also, how is the Cardiff? I was thinking about buying a Cardiff 300a and putting 17 or 20# mono on it for tog fishing. Mono is more abrasion resistant than braid.

Hokie,
What kind of line do you have on your Curado? I have 12# Big Game on my Curado 200E7. I don't use it for togs.

For togs, I use my Calcutta 400 with 30# braid. I don't like it because it's heavy at 12 oz. I want a reel that's no more than 9-10 oz that can hold about 100 yds of 17 mono. That's why I thinking about the Cardiff, which is 9 oz, and can hold about 100 yds of 20# mono.

The Abu C3 is another option. I'm thinking the 5500 (about 10 oz) with 17# mono for togs. The 6500 is heavier.

I want to stick with mono because of it's abrasion resistance. I read that generally the toughness is about the same for braid and mono with the same diameter. Not sure this is true. If so, then 30# braid is as tough as 8# mono, which is hard to believe.

ComeOnFish
11-23-2011, 05:37 PM
Tufnik,

I don't have enough data so I can confirm the shorter distance is better yet.
Anyway, I didn't mention this. My dropper loop is shorter than Rob's 2-3'. I changed to 1 - 2". It is hard to put the hook through the dropper loop normal way if the loop is small (short). I put both end of the leaders through the dropper loop after I put the dropper loop through the ear of the hook. I thought I can set the hook better if the dropper loop is very short because I can feel the subtle bites. I think Tog is not leader shy or sinker shy.

The distance from the dropper loop to the sinker to me is this:

The distance between the knot of dropper loop and the end of the sinker loop when the sinker loop was stretched. So the bait is about 2.5-4" above the top of the sinker depending on the current. I felt Tog is a bottom feeder because Tog never touched the baits that were placed 15-16 above the sinker to me

HokieDJ
11-23-2011, 06:18 PM
I have the Curado 301E. I use 20 lb braid on one and 30lb braid on the other. For togs, I use a 40 lb mono I rigged as a leader. FWIW, I did a search on Calcutta vs Curado and pretty much they are neck and neck. Calcutta being heavier and longer lasting but in a kayak, weight matters to me. I just got into bait casting and never read instructions so I don't even know how to set the brakes and such. I just cast and thumb the spool before it hits the water.

As far as how high or low the bait is in regards to the hook, I'm not sure it matters. I have used my rigs where the crab hangs right at the same level as the weight and some a few inches above and it didn't matter. Of course this is all at Kipto so maybe CBBT will be different.

ictalurus
11-23-2011, 07:46 PM
Joe--I've read about some baitcasters, particularly Abus, coming from the factory with very little or no grease on the gears. My Revo SX HS had almost no grease on it when it was brand new, but my Quantum Accurist was OK. It might be worth opening up your reel to make sure there's grease in there. Just be careful pulling off the drag stack. I fumbled the washers once and couldn't figure out the order even after looking at the schematic and couldn't get it right by trial and error, so I had to send it off to be reassembled properly. :o

ComeOnFish
11-23-2011, 08:30 PM
Bill,
I think it can be considered as a user error.

For my defense, I think, if an instruction is not stated on the manual then it is not a user error. But I may be lack of common sense.

I duplicated the stuck quick-fire-clutch bar problem this evening. I had two old bait-casting reels (Shimano Corsair CA200A). I used them for flounder fishing 10+ years ago. And I never had the stuck Quick-fire-clutch bar issues. I tied Nemo (my 8 lb dog) to the fishing line. He is OK with it. He likes it. I reeled him and tried what I did while sitting on the kayak. It happened again when I was testing with old Corsair. I found the reason for the stuck quick-fire-clutch bar problem. I used to use thumb drag a lot when I used small conventional reels on the boat. It became/is my habit.
What I did with bait-casting reels was that I pressed the quick-fire-clutch bar to unlock the spool while the line is in tension. I learned today that there must be no tension on the line to push down the quick-fire-clutch bar to unlock the spool for free lining.

I am glad that I found the reason. Now I have two more additional reels (Shimano Corsair) for tog fishing. I thought I had undersized or defective reels (Shimano Cardiff and Abu Garcia) until this evening.

So I broke the Shimano Cardiff 301A 10 days ago by pressing the quick-fire-clutch bar very hard.:o

By the way, am I lack of common sense, or was it a user error? My wife will say "both".

Joe

ictalurus
11-23-2011, 08:57 PM
The thumb bar is definitely a weak link for baitcasters. Before I buy one, I'll test it in the store to see how solidly it re-engages when the handle is turned. You can feel the mechanism slip and grind in some reels, so I avoided those, particularly low end Daiwas, Pfluegers, and Quantums. When I took apart my Revo and Accurist, their mechanisms seemed pretty solid, but I have goofed a couple times and caused problems. I probably did exactly what you're talking about.

Now, I want to see a video of you reeling in your dog. :D One of my cats needs to do exercises to strengthen her leg after a surgery last month. Maybe I'll hook her harness up to one of my baitcasters. :p

Redfish12
11-23-2011, 10:55 PM
Hey Joe, did they have the 6501? It doesn't have a thumb bar and has a button on the side plate. It may help you avoid pressing the bar down when you have tension on the line. It's definitely a weak point on bc's, conventional are a little better due to the lever but not as easy to cast or as light. If you want I can put some grease on your Abu and take a look at that 209.

I'm contemplating heading to chsp on Sunday, anyone interested?

ComeOnFish
11-24-2011, 08:15 AM
Michael,
Believe or not I am officially working Friday evening to Sunday 5:00pm for a major deployment.

I am the only one working and I scheduled long running jobs on Saturday. So On Saturday I will be in Charlottesville watching Hokie crushing Cat-valiers.
Then Sunday I am working whole day.

Joe

camelbird
12-02-2011, 09:19 PM
joe,

Not sure if you'll get this, but in the video... what type of scissors were you using to dice up the blue crab?

Thanks

Justin

ComeOnFish
12-02-2011, 10:06 PM
joe,

Not sure if you'll get this, but in the video... what type of scissors were you using to dice up the blue crab?

Thanks

Justin

Glad that you asked. I was going to mention about the Scissor from the Ocean East 2. Any Kitchen Scissor will do the job. But though the best one is from the Ocean East 2 at $3.99 - I think I paid. I can even cut braided line with just one snip. My other $15, $19 scissors my wife bought are garbage compare to the $3.99 scissor at Ocean East 2. My wife was so impressed with the scissors that she wants me to buy 3 more.

joe

camelbird
12-02-2011, 10:29 PM
Thanks Joe!

definitely getting a pair!

tufnik
12-02-2011, 11:00 PM
I use these from Home Depot. Titanium scissors for ten bucks. Sharp, works great. Doesn't rust. Lifetime warranty.

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202213275/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053